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  • #31
    Originalmente publicado por debbie888 Ver Mensaje
    I have just had skytvinspain install a 1.5 dish, and I am happy, and I have FREE VIEW (FTV) so he is clearly not talking porkies.. only thing is that BBC2 goes off after 7pm???
    It sounds like you are skytvinspain's female alter ego

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    • #32
      They may be FTV channels and therefore freely available to be received, subject to the correct equipment, but it has been confirmed by BSkyB that to use one of their cards outside of the United Kingdom to receive those channels is a breach of the terms and conditions on the use of the card. One would assume that to supply a card to a home in Spain, one would have to open a contract with a UK address; surely that is some form of deception, obtaining property under false conditions?

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      • #33
        Freesat

        Originalmente publicado por Chrisdee Ver Mensaje
        Freeview is available to some areas in the UK but not outside. Freesat or as its also known free to air from Sky can be picked up in Spain but it is still not legal. The copyright belongs to SkyUK. Is this not correct then, this is what I thought was correct?
        I don't believe this is correct. The company called Freesat just happen to be using the satellite called Astra 2, the same as Sky do. It is not a 'Sky' satellite, they just happen to be users of it, as Freesat now do.

        EBT

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        • #34
          Without going into details

          In English law, theft was codified into a statutory offence in the Theft Act 1968 which defines it as:

          "A person is guilty of theft, if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it". (Section 1)
          Definition of copyright
          The Directive 2001/29/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 22 May 2001 on the harmonisation of certain aspects of copyright and related rights in the information society, commonly known as the EU Copyright Directive (EUCD) or the Information Society Directive (Infosoc), is a European Union directive in the field of copyright law, made under the internal market provisions of the Treaty of Rome. It is intended to implement the WIPO Copyright Treaty, to which the European Union is a party
          Articles 2–4 contain a brief definition of the property rights associated with copyright and related rights. They distinguish the "reproduction right" (Art. 2) from the right of "communication to the public" or "making available to the public" (Art. 3): the latter is specifically intended to cover publication and transmission on the internet. The two names for the right derive from the WIPO Copyright Treaty and the WIPO Performances and Phonograms Treaty (Arts. 8 & 10 respectively).
          The right of communication to the public or making available to the public is also distinguished from the "distribution right" (Art. 4) by the fact that it is not subject to the first-sale doctrine.
          The following rights are protected by European Union law:
          • right of reproduction for authors, performers, producers of phonograms and films and broadcasting organisations (Art. 7, D. 92/100/EEC, replaced by Art. 2, D. 2001/29/EC: also Art. 14 TRIPS, Arts. 7 & 11 WPPT);
          • right of communication to the public for authors, performers, producers of phonograms and films and broadcasting organisations (Art. 3, D. 2001/29/EC: also Art. 10 TRIPS, Art. 8 WCT and Arts. 6, 10 & 14 WPPT);
          • right of distribution for authors (Art. 4, D. 2001/29/EC) and for performers, producers of phonograms and films and broadcasting organisations (Art. 9, D. 92/100/EEC: also Art. 10 TRIPS, Art. 6 WCT and Arts. 8 & 12 WPPT);
          • right of fixation for performers and broadcasting organisations (Art. 6, D. 92/100/EEC: also Art. 14 TRIPS and Art. 6 WPPT);
          • right of rental and/or lending for authors, performers, producers of phonograms and films (Art. 2, D. 92/100/EEC: also Art. 11 TRIPS, Art. 7 WCT and Arts. 9 & 13 WPPT),[17] with an associated right of equitable remuneration for lending and/or rental for authors and performers (Art. 4, D. 92/100/EEC);
          • right of broadcasting for performers, producers of phonograms and broadcasting organisations (Art. 8, D. 92/100/EEC: also Art. 6 WPPT).
          • right of communication to the public by satellite for authors, performers, producers of phonograms and broadcasting organisations (Arts. 2, 4, D. 93/83/EEC)
          The rights of reproduction, distribution and rental for authors of computer programs are specified in Art. 4, D. 91/250/EEC (also Art. 11 TRIPS).
          Moral rights are usually considered to be a matter for the national laws of the Member States, although some countries classify some of the above rights, especially the right of communication to the public, among the moral rights of the author rather than under his rights of exploitation.

          Limitations
          Temporary copying which is the result of the transmission of a work or of its legal use is not covered by the exclusive right of reproduction (Art. 5(1), D. 2001/29/EC).
          Member states can implement other limitations from the list in Article 5, D. 2001/29/EC, or retain limitations which were already in force on 22 June 2001. Permitted limitations are:
          • paper reproductions by photocopying or similar methods, except of sheet music, if there is compensation for rightsholders;
          • reproductions made for private and non-commercial use if there is compensation for rightholders;
          • reproductions by public libraries, educational institutions or archives for non-commercial use;
          • preservation of recordings of broadcasts in official archives;
          • reproductions of broadcasts by social, non-commercial institutions such as hospitals and prisons, if there is compensation to rightholders;
          • use for illustration for teaching or scientific research, to the extent justified by the non-commercial purpose;
          • uses directly related to a disability, to the extent justified by the disability;
          • press reviews and news reporting;
          • quotations for the purposes of criticism or review;
          • uses for the purposes of public security or in administrative, parliamentary or judicial proceedings;
          • uses of political speeches and extracts of public lectures, to the extent justified by public information;
          • uses during religious or official celebrations;
          • uses of works, such as architecture or sculpture, which are located permanently in public places;
          • incidental inclusion in another work;
          • use for the advertisement of the public exhibition or sale of art;
          • caricature, parody or pastiche;
          • use in connection with the demonstration or repair of equipment;
          • use of a protected work (eg, plans) for the reconstruction of a building;
          • communication of works to the public within the premises of public libraries, educational institutions, museums or archives.
          No new limitations may come into force after 22 June 2001 except those in the above list (Art. 5(3)(o), D. 2001/29/EC). Limitations may only be applied in "certain special cases which do not conflict with a normal exploitation of the work or other subject-matter and do not unreasonably prejudice the legitimate interests of the rightholder" (Art. 5(5), D. 2001/29/EC: also Art. 13 TRIPS, Art. 10 WCT and Art. 16 WPPT). However it was agreed at the time of drafting the WIPO Copyright and Performances and Phonograms Treaties that this wording "neither reduces nor extends the scope of applicability of the limitations and exceptions permitted by the Berne Convention."
          My argument remains:

          1. The right owners have sold the programs to the content providers for a limited distribution unless a world wide exclusive right has been purchased.

          2. When someone makes copies or rebroadcasts the programming, they are taking away the distributors ability to offer these programs, which they have purchased from the exclusive distribution right for Spain, reducing the value of the distributors content purchase, thereby dishonestly appropriating property belonging to someone else.

          Unless we can define SKY or watching British TV "use during religious celebrations", I don't really see that any of the exceptions apply either.

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          • #35
            hmmm

            From how I see it, if a channel isn't allowed here, then it's not allowed whether you're charging for it or not, if it requires permission, then permission oyu must get. If someone went and robbed a store then gave everything they robbed away for free, the fact they robbed it is still against the law, even if they didn't profit from it...

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            • #36
              My motivation

              My motivation for posting these notes is to try to warn people so that they do not get lured into paying for a product that does not deliver what it promises.

              Which motive anyone else might have, is for you to decide. It could be that they are trying to profit from people who thinks a few hundred euros (tousand?) is worth paying for getting their beloved soaps and sports back.

              But then again, I might be a cynic.

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              • #37
                Originalmente publicado por david s Ver Mensaje
                I live in the Quesada area. I had Telmicro up to May when the loss of Sky channels happened the first time, but also a UK registered Sky card.

                I decided to ditch Telmicro and add Sky sports to my Sky subscription instead.

                I now have a 1.45m dish and can get BBC1, ITV, Channels 4 & 5 etc and because I subscribe, Sky Sports. I cannot get BBc2, 3 or 4, and even if I subscribed could not get Sky Films unless I buy a bigger dish.

                I bought a new digibox called the Dark Box for €280, which will take my Sky card and is an HD receiver, so I get the free to air HD channels (at the moment BBC, Channel 4 and ITV coming soon). I could get the Sky HD channels if I added them to my Sky subscription.

                I could ditch the Sky card and get all the free to air channels with no ongoing fee if I wished. The HD digibox was purely an optional extra - I could have just used my Sky Box and only paid for the dish.

                The picture is much clearer and I don't have to worry about the future of these guys like Telmicro, Superbeam etc.

                You can buy the basic sky boxes very cheaply now, because people want Sky+ etc. But if you are buying one, I was advised, and found it to be true, that because it works best in low signal strength areas it is best to stick to Pace. I brought my Grundig from the UK and it was hopeless here.
                I too live in the Quesada area.
                I have a 1.9m dish pointed at Astra/Eurobird 28 deg E and can get BBC1, ITV, Film4, E4 during the day. In the evening - zilch. The problem is that these channels are beamed from the Asta 2D satellite which has a very poor footprint over southern Spain. Other channels are beamed from a stronger satellite and so you can get away with a smaller dish, e.g. 80 cm dia.
                I would suggest a minimum 2.4m dish is required with a good quality LNB and receiver.
                Mine's a Technomate and I bought from the UK for 60 pounds plus about 30 for transport.
                Another alternative is to install a motorised dish when you will be able to point at several more satellites to receive umpteen FTA channels.
                Furthermore, if you subscribe to certain satellite forums then you have the opportunity to "patch" the receiver so that it can receive and show several scrambled channels as well, e.g. BBC Prime, BBC Knowledge, BBC Style, German and French sports and movie channels, movies in english with arabic subtitles, etc. etc.
                Good luck with whichever you decide.

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