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Thread: Cash payments

  1. #11
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    Sounds like some people should have bought a place in sunny blackpool where you can watch english TV, drink john smiths, and eat fish and chips! There is more to spain than the weather.
    Cinuelica
    Yes it is a question of what's right and wrong but is it right or wrong?, is their a definative answer? because black money is not a secret the authorities know what happens but they don't stop it. I suppose when property was a lot cheaper the so called bung was only a small amount and exceptable but now because of the property boom the bung has become a serious amount of cash.Nobody bullies you into buying a property abroad, at the end of the day it's OUR choice so you will do what you feel comfortable with. I am delighted with our property in spain and comfortable in the way we purchased it, whichever route you go down to buy, i hope your as happy. best of luck. Tony

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    62

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    Tony
    I do understand what you are saying but in my case I strongly disagree.
    With my particular purchase I've had nothing but trouble because of the builders/agents (the whole site has been changed without any reference to the buyers).
    These past few months have been a nightmare. The builder absolutely refuses to declare the full amount and it looks like I'll have to pay the "bung". If that isn't being bullied, what is? And what's worse, I can't do anything about it - I've tried, believe me.
    I intend to enjoy Spain, integrate the best I can and am trying very hard to get to grips with the language. BUT that doesn't mean that when I come out to live permanently I'll be wearing blinkers.
    Cin

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    Cin....I agree with every word. My builder is trying to bully me into paying him a bung. But I've told my solicitor that it is not in my purchase contract and why do I have to pay it. I am quite happy to pay the full amount with the full IVA and don't wish to defraud the Spanish Government of any tax. The builder is asking me to break the Spanish law by defraud......how can this be right? Eventually, this will all catch up with every foreign property purchase when the government realises how much money they have been done out of. Did your solicitor not back you when you wanted to pay the full amount? Is it not a solicitors job to work on behalf of his client? My solicitor is saying that it will be a lot less hassle if I just go along with it and pay the black money although he will pursue it at a price.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    62

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    Trueblue

    My solicitor is in discussion with the builder now and has successfully petitioned on another person's behalf, but because the builder and I have "history" brought about by the agents I have to add, he is digging his heels in and refusing to budge, as I said earlier, I am being bullied into paying it. I am not confident enough to refuse point blank in front of the builder at paying up time so will have to go ahead unless my solicitor is successful. I cannot wait until all this completion business is behind me - never, ever again!
    Cin

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    118

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    What amazes me here is the approach adopted by solicitors. In the UK they would not hesitate to offer advice that buyers should stay within the law but in Spain they don't seem to want to stand up against tough opposition. I really am disappointed by the attitude of some Spanish solicitors. It makes you have less confidence in their advice.
    PaddyW

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Villamartin
    Posts
    13

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    We purchased our house here nearly 3 years ago and after studying You and The Law in Spain by David Searle we went armed with every fact when we went to the Solicitors here. We told her that we wished to pay the full amount on the deeds and she laughed at us and told her that we would be the only people in Spain to do this. You don´t get the backing of the Solicitors in this matter at all. We had to go along with her and ended up carrying a ridiculous amount of cash thru Torrevieja to the Notary´s office. Even our Bank Manager here thought it ridiculous but no-one does anything legally. We have just sold an apartment this last week and we turned up at the Notary, our buyers were having a mortgage with a Spanish Bank and the black money was paid over to us in front of the banks representative. The only thing we asked was that it was in the form of a Bankers Draft, not cash, so that we weren´t carrying any cash around. I don´t think this will ever change until the government take a firm hand and ban it all together.

  7. #17
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    Dec 2004
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    I have not yet been in the position of having to deal with the issue of the cash payment. I have told my estate agent that I will reluctently go along with a modest under declaring of value. I know that builders get greedy to avoid tax but the thought of having to persuade a future buyer to continue with the under declaring is worrying. The prospect of paying 35% on the supposed profit also stresses me out. I have a great deal of sympathy for people in this situation. The last thing we should do is to lecture them for silly or weak. I will be reaching this stage soon and already it is making me fill stressful.

    I have a contract like all the others who have posted on this subject and it simply says the price. There is no agreement to participate in the custom of under declaring. Surely under declaring needs both parties to agree a figure. I cannot understand how the builders can so successfully bully us into accepting what they want. What can they do if we don't agree their figure. In saying this I am not maintaining that all those who agreed to under declare should not have done so. I am simply trying to understand the pressure that I can expect to face at this point in the completion. I am also trying to understand how the builder can exert pressure and what can he do if we prevaricate.

    Finally, I cannot understand how useless the solicitors seem to be in supporting their clients. Don't they ever stand up to the builder and support their clients? Have any people ever successfully faced down the builder and managed to get them to back off or at least be more realistic?
    PaddyW

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    West Midlands, England
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    51

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    I agree with this last comment about Spanish solicitors. Nothing in the world would have english solicitors breaking the law or helping the purchaser to break the law. In our spanish solicitor's defence she did suggest that we should pay the "whole" price when coming to the point of making the final payment pointing out to us that we would otherwise have to pay capital gains tax when we came to sell, otherwise adopt the same shady practice. However when it came to her negotiations with the builder he pointed out that we had already paid money against the under declared value at the outset (unbeknown to us, as our first solicitor recommended by Atlas did not explain this to us). We later changed our solicitor and the second one did attempt to renegotiate with the builder to keep it legal. As he had set the declared value on all the properties on the urbanisation he would not change the contract.

    I can't imagine this practice going on under the British government's nose like it does under the Spanish government's nose - all that tax not getting collected - NEVER!!

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    62

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    I have heard very recently that a Spanish solicitor faced down the builder and the client had the full amount declared, it does prove that it can happen but the cases are very few and far between. People need to be aware of this shady business BEFORE contracts are signed, perhaps then the builder and agents will have to think again.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    118

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    You say we need to be aware of this before contracts are signed but it is not mentioned in the contract and often not mentioned verbally until afterwards. It is not a contractual arrangments and I can't understand why the builder always has the upper hand and why the solicitors are so wishy washy.
    PaddyW

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