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  • #31
    Dear All

    Sorry to hear that you are all so worried about the black money aspect of your house purchases.

    This IS a part of Spanish culture and will probably not change in next 20 years. Having married a spanish girl over here 2 years ago, I have come to understand some the systems that are in place.

    1 The black money economy kept Spain a cheaper place for Brits to
    holday and live. Now this edge is being lost as more and more products
    and suppliers are having to pay taxes.

    2 Your Solicitor does not work for you - although you pay his fees
    He probably works for your estate agent or the builder

    3 Please do not think that UK solicitors do not work out side of the law.
    A good solicitor is someone who allows his client to digress across
    the boundaries of the law without the penalties of the police.

    The system here is much more visable, because the sytem is made
    up of much smaller players that those in the UK

    Comentario


    • #32
      Thanks for that James - but I still don't agree with it.

      Comentario


      • #33
        Cash Payments

        A question for Cin,

        You have a real obsession with this whole black money / cash payment issue - having read most of your posts over recent months its obvious you feel like you are being seriously ripped off by someone ?? You bought through an agent - they will make money from that transaction - they are in the business to make money, accept it and move on. Builders, not just Spanish but the world over, deal in hard cash - none more so than british builders. Can you honestly say you have never paid cash in hand for a job done by a builder / plumber / carpenter ? When (if) you take over your property in Spain, and you want some tiling / ballustrading done - will you refuse to pay cash ? If so, don't expect to get any work done by either a spanish or english builder ! Builders deal in hard cash, accept it and move on.

        All of us would like the world to perfect where you get exactly what you pay for, on time, in full and all above board. I am by no means implying anyone should settle for second best - far, far from it. In my opinion the chip on your shoulder with your agent and/or your builder will eventually get the better of you and continue to bring you the stress & misery you share with us on these boards.

        Life is for living -accept it and move on.

        Comentario


        • #34
          Redbeard
          Interesting observation and extremely patronising.
          I have my opinion you have yours. You obviously are incapable of discussing this topic without making personal remarks so we'll leave it there.
          Cinuelica

          Comentario


          • #35
            Cash Payments

            Cin,

            Sorry - no personal attack intended and you are spot on - it is only an observation.

            But one I feel has only had your best interests in mind - to live successfully and happily in Spain, it is vital that you come to accept that things are done differently than in the UK. Some practices don't fit with some of our british moral standards, others exceed them. Think about the reasons you are buying a property in Spain and whether the principles you are sticking to so strongly are worth jeopardising your future happiness in Spain.

            Those who stand on the moral high ground have to be prepared for having pot shots taken at them.........

            Arrrr !

            Comentario


            • #36
              Cash Payments

              I am flying out to Spain on Sunday to complete on my appartment in la Cinuelica. I have had a constant battle with my solicitor regarding my refusing to under-declare. The solicitor kept telling me that this was the way things were done in Spain and that, if I was not prepared to under-declare by 30,000 euros, the developer would refuse to sell the property to me. I was then on a mission NOT to under-declare. Why should we be forced into doing something illegal just to make the developer even richer. When we go to sell, we will be liable for 35% capital gains tax on any profit we have made which means, instead of paying 35% on any profit above my original purchase price of 110,000 euros, I would be paying 35% on any profit over 80,000 euros. We are talking a lot of euros here. I absolutely refused to under-declare and, after several emails and telephone calls, it has finally been sorted out and I am only under-declaring the deposit (ie 2,800 euros) which I can handle. I think people are really going to come unstuck in the future if the Spainish Government and Inland Revenue decide to toughen up the laws. There are going to be a lot of foreigners with huge tax bills. My advice is to refuse to under-declare - you will have a fight and you do pay a few thousand euros more in tax but it is definitely to your benefit in the future.

              Cindy

              Comentario


              • #37
                Hi all
                Just got back on Sunday after completion on our apartment on la Cinuelica
                apart from a few minor hitches everything went ok. We are so pleased that we used our own solicitor and not the one Atlas has refered to us. The reason for this is that we did not want to pay the "black money". We felt that we had been ripped off over something that happened after we bought the property, I wont bore you all with that. As I said earlier in the post the builder wanted 27% in cash. Atlas told us that if we wanted our keys before we went to the notary we had no choice but to pay them the cash element. Our solicitor worked hard on our behalf and got the payment reduced to 10% in cash. We were happier with this amount but asked the solicitor to keep trying. A few days before we went out we had an email which said "he who insists wins". We paid the builder at the notary last Tuesday and picked up the keys from the show house.

                Comentario


                • #38
                  cash payments

                  Jackie

                  Glad it all went well for you and you are now all settled. How did the furniture bit go, did you get any furniture delivered or did you just leave it till later. Hope Pat is getting on OK, hopefully we will meet up with her when we go out at the weekend.

                  Dorothy

                  Comentario


                  • #39
                    cash payments

                    Hi

                    As a builder i know all about cash payments but it only works if its profitable for both sides, I'm completing in september so a little way away yet but am I right in thinking that these cash payments only work in the builders favour , do they ever knock off money off the house purchase price or is it just the tax ???

                    Comentario


                    • #40
                      Bricky,

                      The only advantages to the purchaser are the saving of IVA (at 7%) on the cash element, plus a lower purchase price on the deeds which means that your cadastral value may be lower, leading to lower wealth tax charges (although this will be negligible).

                      Basically it's mainly in the builder's favour. There is no discount for paying a lump in cash - in fact most purchasers don't know about the 'black money' element until they get close to completion. it's not something that the agents mention.....

                      Chris.

                      Comentario


                      • #41
                        Hi Dot
                        Am hoping to post later on la cinuelica site re how things went.

                        Comentario


                        • #42
                          Not all builders are the same.

                          When we purchased our property from Victoria Playa there was no mention of "black money", and the full purchase price was on all the documentation.

                          We didn't have a mortgage so this would not have affected the amount.

                          Viv

                          Comentario


                          • #43
                            Cash Payments

                            Hi,

                            I'm a journalist writing an article for The Daily Telegraph about Black Money and I would like to speak to people about their experiences. It can be off the record if you prefer but I am trying to point out the possible problems to those people thinking of buying in Spain.

                            If you're interested, I'd love to hear from you.

                            Chris Wilson

                            Comentario


                            • #44
                              Hi Chris
                              I am sure there may be a lot of people interested in conveying the problems people have with black money and much more, including problems with agents, builders etc etc. However, and not to appear rude. If we wanted to contact you how do we know that you are genuine and would we be able to contact you at your place of work.

                              Comentario


                              • #45
                                authentification

                                Hi Jacpops,

                                if you want to check out my bonafides, you can do so through the editor of the Telegraph property section who is Angela Pertusini tel 00 44 207 538 5000.

                                I look forward to hearing from you.

                                Chris Wilson

                                Comentario

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