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From time to time you get somewhere a reaction on forums that not only is funny, but discloses a lot.
And yes, I feel always free to get into a clinch and make things clear from my point of view. After all, on the english forums on the Costa Blanca there are very few if any Spaniards, so after residing here for 25 years and being considered by people from my native country a Spaniard (as well as by most Madrid and Alicante Spaniards), why not have a go.
What I find most objectionable is this attitude of 'slight' moral superiority. The sort of expression (with a wink and a look to the ceiling in the bar) of 'well, we all know that here in Spain it is all corruption and jobs for the boys'. Now please try to get on with reading the whole article, if possible read it two or three times before reacting or reading things I do NOT write ...
In ANY country there are problems with (well yes, let's call it) corruption. You have it in different forms in Germany, in France, in the US, in Flanders, in the UK, in Italy, in Spain. And in any country you have this 'problem' that nationals usually know better how the rules and regulations work, how to make shortcuts etc.
Only for a certain kind of 'Brit' in Spain does that seem like a major problem.
Now let us first of all look at Spain. Here in Spain the local, regional and national administration people have always been known to make time for you, to try to explain things, to try to make things easier for all. A lot of foreigners have taken advantage of this - also to bend the rules towards their benefit. Now before you start howling, how many people on the costas do not drive english registered cars without the MOT rules being followed? How many thousands of people were not following illegally broadcast TV? How many people do not run a business here without declaring their income? How many people are not get benefits paid to them in the UK whilst they are in fact living here in Spain?
The list can go on for some time. From a Spanish point of view you can add something else: how many expat businesses do not register, do not employ spaniards, do not pay social security, etc. and in fact are like ... locusts living on the Spanish business climate.
Now the Spaniards are not against a 'little' fiddling - don t worry about that. No brits complain about the unemployment rules here being exploited by them - after all the rule here is that you only get it when you have paid into it. Nor about child benefit - after all, you hardly get it. Nor about winter fuel heating - after all it does not exiist here. The main problem seems to be that spaniards 'know their way better around the system'. Well the, isn t it about time the british, the germans, the french etc. learnt the language?
I personally do not have the same problem. My way of (sorry for the expression) running rounds around the spanish administration is simple:
a. respect them
b. ask THEM to clarify things
c. NEVER say 'in my country ...' except to say it is even worse administration (see later)
d. ask them, when it is not clear: hmmm do you understand this? chances are he/she will say ... no
e. ask finally: how do wet round this?
Flemish/Belgian administration against the spanish one:
a. in Spain no one will consider the money from the state HIS money ...
b. in Spain the computer systems work - in Flanders (like very year) the tax onl line system broke down again this week
c. the DNI system works - in Flanders there are regularly problems, frauds etc.
Just a sample of the examples I give them.
Now the UK doe NOT rank as the least corrupt country in the world - check Transparency International's site on that. Nor are other european countries top of the league. That position is taken by ex british colonies like Nigeria etc.
A bit of respect towards the CHOSEN country of residence, work, whatever you want, would go a very long way. Innuendos, generalistations, the 'we are superior' does not lead anywhere, except towards generalisations like:
a. the flemish saying 'spain would be a lot cleaner without the british'
b. the spaniards saying the british are 'los hijos de la Gran Bretaña' meaning the sons of the great whore.
c. the spaniards 'pointing' out that the english are always drunk.
Now in England, we ahve had enormous fun lately reading the papers and the corruption in Whitehall. A few questions before you say 'yes but it has been solved'.:
a. at the date of writing this, who is the speaker? yes, the same one
b. did any MP resign?
c. is it only MP's who fiddled or is it also at local government level?
I can go on with that. What¡s the use?
The attention - at least in the UK has been drawn towards the MP's expenses, the bankers go free, the journalists's ratings have improved, newspapers have been sold - so what?
And yes, I feel always free to get into a clinch and make things clear from my point of view. After all, on the english forums on the Costa Blanca there are very few if any Spaniards, so after residing here for 25 years and being considered by people from my native country a Spaniard (as well as by most Madrid and Alicante Spaniards), why not have a go.
What I find most objectionable is this attitude of 'slight' moral superiority. The sort of expression (with a wink and a look to the ceiling in the bar) of 'well, we all know that here in Spain it is all corruption and jobs for the boys'. Now please try to get on with reading the whole article, if possible read it two or three times before reacting or reading things I do NOT write ...
In ANY country there are problems with (well yes, let's call it) corruption. You have it in different forms in Germany, in France, in the US, in Flanders, in the UK, in Italy, in Spain. And in any country you have this 'problem' that nationals usually know better how the rules and regulations work, how to make shortcuts etc.
Only for a certain kind of 'Brit' in Spain does that seem like a major problem.
Now let us first of all look at Spain. Here in Spain the local, regional and national administration people have always been known to make time for you, to try to explain things, to try to make things easier for all. A lot of foreigners have taken advantage of this - also to bend the rules towards their benefit. Now before you start howling, how many people on the costas do not drive english registered cars without the MOT rules being followed? How many thousands of people were not following illegally broadcast TV? How many people do not run a business here without declaring their income? How many people are not get benefits paid to them in the UK whilst they are in fact living here in Spain?
The list can go on for some time. From a Spanish point of view you can add something else: how many expat businesses do not register, do not employ spaniards, do not pay social security, etc. and in fact are like ... locusts living on the Spanish business climate.
Now the Spaniards are not against a 'little' fiddling - don t worry about that. No brits complain about the unemployment rules here being exploited by them - after all the rule here is that you only get it when you have paid into it. Nor about child benefit - after all, you hardly get it. Nor about winter fuel heating - after all it does not exiist here. The main problem seems to be that spaniards 'know their way better around the system'. Well the, isn t it about time the british, the germans, the french etc. learnt the language?
I personally do not have the same problem. My way of (sorry for the expression) running rounds around the spanish administration is simple:
a. respect them
b. ask THEM to clarify things
c. NEVER say 'in my country ...' except to say it is even worse administration (see later)
d. ask them, when it is not clear: hmmm do you understand this? chances are he/she will say ... no
e. ask finally: how do wet round this?
Flemish/Belgian administration against the spanish one:
a. in Spain no one will consider the money from the state HIS money ...
b. in Spain the computer systems work - in Flanders (like very year) the tax onl line system broke down again this week
c. the DNI system works - in Flanders there are regularly problems, frauds etc.
Just a sample of the examples I give them.
Now the UK doe NOT rank as the least corrupt country in the world - check Transparency International's site on that. Nor are other european countries top of the league. That position is taken by ex british colonies like Nigeria etc.
A bit of respect towards the CHOSEN country of residence, work, whatever you want, would go a very long way. Innuendos, generalistations, the 'we are superior' does not lead anywhere, except towards generalisations like:
a. the flemish saying 'spain would be a lot cleaner without the british'
b. the spaniards saying the british are 'los hijos de la Gran Bretaña' meaning the sons of the great whore.
c. the spaniards 'pointing' out that the english are always drunk.
Now in England, we ahve had enormous fun lately reading the papers and the corruption in Whitehall. A few questions before you say 'yes but it has been solved'.:
a. at the date of writing this, who is the speaker? yes, the same one
b. did any MP resign?
c. is it only MP's who fiddled or is it also at local government level?
I can go on with that. What¡s the use?
The attention - at least in the UK has been drawn towards the MP's expenses, the bankers go free, the journalists's ratings have improved, newspapers have been sold - so what?
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