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  • #46
    Maybe the freedom to harm oneself can be extended to people who wish to not wear seat belts when driving. Their rights should be respected by the emergency services that have the consequential mess to clear up; those whose job it is to inform the parents of the manner of their deaths; their kids? While we are at it why not give freedom of choice to all those who wish to end their lives as they wish, through binge and drug taking, dangerous and inconsiderate driving for example; their choice. Sod the rest of us who have to live on, scarred by the loss of others.

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    • #47
      Breaking the Law.

      Two of my local bars have recently become No Smoking having previously opted to be Smoking following the last ruling that gave them the option.
      Now I'm no lawyer, but isn't that breaking the law as it exists ?
      My understanding was that bars under a certain square meterage could choose to be either Smoking or Non Smoking, but having decided could not thereafter change their mind. So, by jumping the gun to become Non Smoking these two bars ( both British run !) are operating illegally.
      I realise that this is being somewhat pedantic, but then so is anything to do with the Non Smoking Nazis.

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      • #48
        Non Smoking Nazis?

        Hi Warrior, I have only joined the forum this year, although I have been a Torrevieja Resident for the past 6 years and visited the forum on several occasions during that time. I sometime laugh at some of the threads and wonder how people's minds work at times. I was a 50-a-day smoker, but gave up smoking on 13th January 1976. If you could have seen the black stuff that I was coughing up for over 2 years, you'd never smoke again. Yes, I know that a reformed smoker is usually the first to complain, but, all those "Smoking Nazis" as I would call them if I used your terminology, need to think what they are doing to other people. My Sister died last year - A Non-Smoker who got lung cancer from passive smoking. A brother-in-law died 5 years ago at the age of 47 - He never smoked in his life, but, that didn't stop the onset of lung cancer. Both deaths proved to be as a result of passive smoking. So, whereas I can understand the logic of smokers, having been one myself, I, for one, am pleased that a no-smoking ban has been introduced, making Torrevieja a healthier place to live. If people want to smoke, fine - But, please think of other people and do it at home. Happy puffing!

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        • #49
          Well we can all stop arguing now, as I read in the spanish news paper this week that the health minister is not going to enforce the smoking ban this summer, in fact they are now talking about waiting for another 2 years, due to pressure from businesses already being affected by the recession.

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          • #50
            Originalmente publicado por torrerod Ver Mensaje
            Hi Warrior, I have only joined the forum this year, although I have been a Torrevieja Resident for the past 6 years and visited the forum on several occasions during that time. I sometime laugh at some of the threads and wonder how people's minds work at times. I was a 50-a-day smoker, but gave up smoking on 13th January 1976. If you could have seen the black stuff that I was coughing up for over 2 years, you'd never smoke again. Yes, I know that a reformed smoker is usually the first to complain, but, all those "Smoking Nazis" as I would call them if I used your terminology, need to think what they are doing to other people. My Sister died last year - A Non-Smoker who got lung cancer from passive smoking. A brother-in-law died 5 years ago at the age of 47 - He never smoked in his life, but, that didn't stop the onset of lung cancer. Both deaths proved to be as a result of passive smoking. So, whereas I can understand the logic of smokers, having been one myself, I, for one, am pleased that a no-smoking ban has been introduced, making Torrevieja a healthier place to live. If people want to smoke, fine - But, please think of other people and do it at home. Happy puffing!
            You`re wasting your time. Head.....banging.....brick wall.....comes to mind.

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            • #51
              "Convince a man against his will; he'll hold the same opinion still."

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              • #52
                Originalmente publicado por new nanny Ver Mensaje
                Well we can all stop arguing now, as I read in the spanish news paper this week that the health minister is not going to enforce the smoking ban this summer, in fact they are now talking about waiting for another 2 years, due to pressure from businesses already being affected by the recession.
                Great news!! That'll be at least 4 visitors to the area again this year then. Every little helps.

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                • #53
                  easy to blame the smoking ban on pubs closing, sure it's part of the cause but surely the astronomical tax the government takes is the main reason!

                  Also the brewries charging exorbitant rents doesn't help - the smoking ban is their scapegoat

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                  • #54
                    I recently buried my mother. She was in her nineties and had never smoked in her life. She had Alzheimer’s.
                    My father, who gave up smoking in his mid-fifties also has Alzheimer’s and is also in his nineties. He now lives in a very nice old person’s home in Surrey.
                    He has absolutely no idea of where he is or even who he is!
                    He sits all day, every day, with all the other inmates, in front of a large flat-screen TV on the wall watching a diet of Constipation Street, Stenders, Crap Factor any other garbage that the wonderful carers put on for him. He’s not allowed to watch football as he gets over-excited!
                    Now, I don’t know about you, but it terrifies me to think that’s what I have to look forward to, having no control over my daily existence.
                    About thirty years ago I went to my doctor with a chest infection. When I entered his surgery he extinguished his ‘Capstan Full Strength’ in the ashtray and closed the bottom drawer of his desk that I knew held a bottle of Jamesons and asked me what was wrong. When I told him he asked me if I smoked, and I said yes, about twenty a day. He then said “Well you won’t have to worry about dementia then” When I asked if the smoking prevented dementia he replied: “No, you just won’t live long enough.”
                    And so I say to all the tree-hugging, nut & berry eating, mineral water drinking, clean-air junkies and live forever nutters, if you want to end your days like my parents, go ahead – I don’t, I’d rather shuffle off still firing on all four, so if you don’t mind I’ll just carry on smoking.
                    Oh Look: IT’S LIGHTING UP TIME!

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                    • #55
                      I watched my Mother in Law die from Alzheimers, and it wasn't a pretty sight. But she was not in any pain, and was in a little world of her own. Although it was distressing for us, her nearest & dearest, she seemed quite at peace with herself. I also have a friend who is terminally ill with lung cancer. 2 months ago, he was given 2 weeks to live. He is still hanging on, in lots of pain, and is afraid to go to sleep, in case he doesn't wake up. He is totally terrified at the prospect of dying. And he is only 65. So Mambo, you just carry on with your smoking, and enjoy it whilst you can. I know which death I would prefer. By the way, I hate nuts, don't hug trees, and as far as I'm aware, I'm not a nutter either. But that's for others to judge.

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                      • #56
                        Dont think all the pubs closing can be blamed on the smoking ban completely. They are closing because of all the "Wine bars" etc opening up in town centres selling drinks at ridiculous low prices. the other large factor is the amount of cheap wines, beer and spirits sold in every Supermarket. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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                        • #57
                          Originalmente publicado por dorsetlad Ver Mensaje
                          I watched my Mother in Law die from Alzheimers, and it wasn't a pretty sight. But she was not in any pain, and was in a little world of her own. Although it was distressing for us, her nearest & dearest, she seemed quite at peace with herself. I also have a friend who is terminally ill with lung cancer. 2 months ago, he was given 2 weeks to live. He is still hanging on, in lots of pain, and is afraid to go to sleep, in case he doesn't wake up. He is totally terrified at the prospect of dying. And he is only 65. So Mambo, you just carry on with your smoking, and enjoy it whilst you can. I know which death I would prefer. By the way, I hate nuts, don't hug trees, and as far as I'm aware, I'm not a nutter either. But that's for others to judge.
                          I'm sorry to hear about your friend, Dorsetlad, but I still think I would prefer his end than to lose my mind.
                          Why does death frighten so many people, in this day & age it's the last big adventure, and one that religion tells us we should all be looking forward to !
                          Please don't take my remarks regarding junkies & nutters too seriously, they are not aimed at individuals but at oppressive cultures that insist that everyone live as they do.

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                          • #58
                            The number of heart attacks has fallen dramatically since the smoking ban came in, figures reveal.
                            At least 1,200 heart attacks were prevented in England in the year after the ban's introduction, according to a report in the British Medical Journal.
                            In the largest study of its kind, information on adult heart attack patients from the five years before the ban came into force in July 2007, was compared with data from the subsequent 14 months.

                            Forcing people to smoke outside has dramatically slashed the number of heart attacks by 1,200, a report has revealed
                            The Bath University research found hospital admissions for heart attacks fell 2.4 per cent in England in the year after it became the last UK nation to ban smoking in indoor public places.
                            This cut in admissions saved the NHS around £8.4million and is likely to have prevented almost 200 deaths.
                            The survival rate in hospital is 85 per cent, so within a group of 1,200 admissions around 180 would be expected to die.
                            Experts pointed out that heart attacks are only one of the smoke-related health problems that the ban will have reduced.
                            Deborah Arnott, of the charity Action on Smoking and Health, said longer-term improvements in cancer could also be expected.
                            Research has already demonstrated that the smoking ban has significantly reduced exposure to secondhand smoke among nonsmokers and children, which is likely to result in further improvements in health.
                            Smoke, both first and secondhand, is thought to increase the chances of a heart attack by making the blood more prone to clotting, reducing levels of 'good' cholesterol and raising the risk of dangerous heart rhythms.
                            More than one in five adults in Britain is a smoker, with 23 per cent of men and 21 per cent of women smoking regularly.
                            There are 230,000 heart attacks each year, of which 123,000 are in adults younger than 75.
                            Betty McBride, of the British Heart Foundation, said: 'It's brilliant news that an average three fewer people a day are admitted to hospital suffering a heart attack.
                            'What's more, we'll see more benefits in future because heart attacks aren't the only way that tobacco smoke harms the heart.
                            'Government should see this as a green light for further life-saving measures, going beyond the forthcoming ban on cigarette vending machines, to crack down on illegal tobacco smuggling and introducing plain packaging on cigarette boxes.
                            'These will also help stop people dying prematurely because of smoking-related illnesses.'
                            Previous studies have shown reductions in the number of heart attacks of 14 to 17 per cent after bans were introduced in Scotland and Northern Ireland.
                            Experts said the effect was smaller in England because many workplaces and restaurants were already smoke-free when the law changed.


                            Read more: Smoking ban has dramatically slashes number of heart attacks | Mail Online

                            Says it all really. Now tell me that a smoking ban is not a bad thing. Or is all this just plain lies.
                            Editado por última vez por jaycee65; https://torrevieja.com/forums/member/4831-jaycee65 en , 08:56:52.

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                            • #59
                              Where there's self interest self-denial kicks in. There'll be smokers who will argue thiese points or justify them by saying 'it's a small price worth paying for our 'enjoyment.''

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                              • #60
                                Originalmente publicado por jaycee65 Ver Mensaje
                                The number of heart attacks has fallen dramatically since the smoking ban came in, figures reveal.
                                At least 1,200 heart attacks were prevented in England in the year after the ban's introduction, according to a report in the British Medical Journal.
                                In the largest study of its kind, information on adult heart attack patients from the five years before the ban came into force in July 2007, was compared with data from the subsequent 14 months.

                                Forcing people to smoke outside has dramatically slashed the number of heart attacks by 1,200, a report has revealed
                                The Bath University research found hospital admissions for heart attacks fell 2.4 per cent in England in the year after it became the last UK nation to ban smoking in indoor public places.
                                This cut in admissions saved the NHS around £8.4million and is likely to have prevented almost 200 deaths.
                                The survival rate in hospital is 85 per cent, so within a group of 1,200 admissions around 180 would be expected to die.
                                Experts pointed out that heart attacks are only one of the smoke-related health problems that the ban will have reduced.
                                Deborah Arnott, of the charity Action on Smoking and Health, said longer-term improvements in cancer could also be expected.
                                Research has already demonstrated that the smoking ban has significantly reduced exposure to secondhand smoke among nonsmokers and children, which is likely to result in further improvements in health.
                                Smoke, both first and secondhand, is thought to increase the chances of a heart attack by making the blood more prone to clotting, reducing levels of 'good' cholesterol and raising the risk of dangerous heart rhythms.
                                More than one in five adults in Britain is a smoker, with 23 per cent of men and 21 per cent of women smoking regularly.
                                There are 230,000 heart attacks each year, of which 123,000 are in adults younger than 75.
                                Betty McBride, of the British Heart Foundation, said: 'It's brilliant news that an average three fewer people a day are admitted to hospital suffering a heart attack.
                                'What's more, we'll see more benefits in future because heart attacks aren't the only way that tobacco smoke harms the heart.
                                'Government should see this as a green light for further life-saving measures, going beyond the forthcoming ban on cigarette vending machines, to crack down on illegal tobacco smuggling and introducing plain packaging on cigarette boxes.
                                'These will also help stop people dying prematurely because of smoking-related illnesses.'
                                Previous studies have shown reductions in the number of heart attacks of 14 to 17 per cent after bans were introduced in Scotland and Northern Ireland.
                                Experts said the effect was smaller in England because many workplaces and restaurants were already smoke-free when the law changed.


                                Read more: Smoking ban has dramatically slashes number of heart attacks | Mail Online

                                Says it all really. Now tell me that a smoking ban is not a bad thing. Or is all this just plain lies.


                                My my, that’s excellent news! However, what would happen if we all stopped smoking overnight? We’d all apparently live ten or twenty years longer. That, combined with the massive drop in government revenue would bring about chaos in the care home industry. I don’t fancy living until I’m ninety or a hundred, sitting in my own pee (or worse!) watching Stenders ad nauseam (God help us!) with the Alzheimer’s or other forms of dementia setting in. The care homes would be full to bursting, and I don’t know about you but I don’t want to wake up each morning to a rainbow over the end of the bed!

                                One of your dubious statistics (start with the answer you’re trying to prove and work back) is that one in five of the adult population in the UK smoke. I would hazard a guess therefore that it’s nearer twenty-five or even thirty percent of the ‘Adult population’ so why not let them have twenty-five percent of the bars and restaurants. You could put huge signs in the windows ‘SMOKING BAR’ and anyone who doesn’t want to come in needn’t. I’m aware that you won’t answer that point because; being an anti-smoking stormtrooper, if you don’t want it no-one can have it.

                                There has been an awful lot of garbage written on this subject by people who don’t wish to smoke and insist that nobody else can either, well, all I can say is: If your government really wanted everyone to stop smoking they’d ban the sale of tobacco wouldn’t they?
                                Editado por última vez por Warrior; https://torrevieja.com/forums/member/2594-warrior en , 11:43:28.

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